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Idiotic Christian Beliefs: God Is Pro-Life Edition - Blowjob Survivor

Jun. 20th, 2020 11:12 pm Idiotic Christian Beliefs: God Is Pro-Life Edition [sticky post]

One of the more asinine things that christian "pro-lifers" claim is that their deity is pro-life and, as such, holds human life as eminently sacred, especially unborn human life.  As a former christian who, unlike the vast majority of self-identified christians, has actually read the bible in its entirety (an enlightening, as well as vomit-inducing, exercise) I will attest that this assertion is patently false.

Nowhere is human life so cheap as it is within the pages of "the sweetest story ever told."  Following is an extensive, but by no means exhaustive, list of passages which show that, indeed, the christian deity is anything but pro-life.

If you don't have a bible on hand and would like to follow along, go to http://www.biblegateway.com.  You can search your favorite biblical translation by passage, keyword, or topic - the default is the New International Version.

First, of course, christians will conveniently claim that one cannot understand the bible without the Holy Spirit (and, of course, unbelievers by definition are not privy to possession by said Holy Spirit).  But then we read Psalms 119:130, which tells us that the "Word of God" is understandable even to retards.  Cop-out defeated.

Second, they'll claim that the Old Testament is defunct since Jesus was crucified for our sins (which, oddly enough, doesn't stop them from using verses from it to support their stances against gay/lesbian and women's rights).  Again, they're lying or, at best, simply misinformed (which, since so few of them actually read the bible for themselves, could honestly be the case).  Yet, repeatedly throughout the New Testament Jesus and his disciples admonish us to heed the Old Testament laws: Matthew 5:18-19, Luke 16:17, Matthew 5:17, II Timothy 3:16, II Peter 20-21, Mark 7:10, Matthew 15:4-7, Matthew 5:27, I Peter 2:18, John 1:17, John 10:35.  Another cop-out defeated.

Mass Murders Committed, Ordered or Condoned by God

Genesis 7:1-24
  This details the flood brought down by god onto humanity and all the planet's creatures for humanity's iniquities.  Note that neither children nor pregnant women (and, hence, their precious, innocent, and sacred zygotes, embryos, and fetuses) are spared. 

Genesis 19:1-29  This details the burning of Sodom and Gomorrah.  Only Lot and his family were warned and given time to flee, though Lot's wife was murdered by god when she dared to look back at the city that had been her home, that contained, I'm sure, many cherished friends.  Again, neither children nor pregnant women are spared.

Exodus 4:21 & 12:29  First god deliberately hardens Pharaoh's heart (so much for free will, eh?) so that he can then slaughter all the first-born of Egypt as punishment for Pharaoh's not letting the Hebrews go free. This is the work of a psychopathic sadist, not that of a just and loving being, except, of course, in the faith-addled minds of the christian masses.

Exodus 14  God drowns in the Red Sea all the hosts of Pharaoh, including the captains of 600 chariots.

Deuteronomy 7  God orders the Israelites to mercilessly slaughter every inhabitant currently occupying lands which he has decided should now belong to the Israelites. Again, there is no mention of sparing either children or pregnant women.

Exodus 32  God orders the massacre of 3,000 Israelites for worshipping a golden calf.

Numbers 16  God murders 250 Levite princes who challenged Moses' leadership, including the wives, sons, and children of two of the princes.  Note that Moses persuaded god to not kill the entire congregation, as god initially wanted to do.  Need I point out what a sadistic, bloodthirsty, petulant psychopath god is? 

God then murders 14,700 Jews in a plague because they rebelled against Moses after the murder of the princes.

Numbers 21:1-3
God destroys all the Canaanites at Hormah at the Jews' request.  Neither children nor fetuses excepted.

Numbers 21:25 and Deuteronomy 2:34  Moses brags about slaughtering the Amorite men, women, and children of Heshbon with god's grace.

Numbers 21:32-35  God delivers the king and subjects of Bashan for total annihilation.

Numbers 25  God kills 24,000 Israelites via a plague for cohabiting (as opposed to enslaving and saving for repeated rape and forced gestation) with Moabite women and worshipping Baal.

Numbers 25:16-17 and Numbers 31  God orders Moses to smite all the kings, males, wives, and children of the Midianites because they worshipped idols.  Note how irate Moses is when the soldiers return with the women and children as captives.  He orders them to kill all the male children, as well as any woman who has slept with a man (which, obviously, includes pregnant women and, hence, their fetuses); he allows them to keep the girl children and virgins for themselves, presumably as slaves to rape and impregnate at will, since, with the exception of Moses, it was a sin against the Lord to marry a non-Hebrew woman.  I wonder how Moses' Midianite wife felt about all this?

Joshua 6  All the men, women, and children of Jericho, except for a prostitute and her family.

Joshua 8  12,000 men, women, and children of Ai.

Joshua 10
  The armies and kings of the Amorites, all the people of Libnah, all the people of Gezer, all the people of Eglon, all the people of Hebron, and multitudes more "just as the LORD, the God of Israel, had commanded."

Judges 8  120,000 Midianites by Gideon and his 300 men. 

Judges 14  30 young Philistines by Samson, enraged after they correctly guess his riddle, when "the Spirit of the LORD came upon him in power."

Judges 20  25,100 Benjamites (also Jews, but devoid of god's good graces) slaughtered by the Israelites.

I Samuel 6:19  Either 70 or 50,070 people of Bethshemesh, depending upon which ancient Hebrew manuscript is quoted - perish for having the audacity to glance into the Ark carrying the stone of the Ten Commandments as it passed by on its cart.

I Samuel 14 and 15  Philistines, Ammonites, and Amalekites slaughtered by anointed King Saul upon god's orders.  Saul falls out of god's favor because instead of killing everyone and everything, as commanded by our oh-so-pro-life god, he keeps the non-pregnant women, children, and livestock as plunder for himself and his troops.

David, on the other hand, is a man of boundless viciousness, who carries out each and every one of god's sadistic, psychopathic orders with unbridled zeal.  I Samuel 18, I Samuel 23, I Samuel 27, II Samuel 4, II Samuel 5II Samuel 8, II Samuel 10, II Samuel 11, II Samuel 12, I Kings 11.  As his (David's) punishment for taking a census, King David chooses to have god kill 70,000 of his subjects with a pestilence in II Samuel 24:15.  In I Samuel 13:14 and Acts 13:22, god proclaims David "a man after my own heart; he will do everything I want him to do." (Lest I be called a liar by anyone, in II Samuel 24:15, god's prophet merely paraphrases god's esteem of the bloodthirsty David).

II Kings 2:23-24  42 children eaten by two bears after Elisha curses them in god's name for the heinous crime of making fun of his bald head.  Wow, even the most ardently anti-child of the childfree community would not advocate such an unjust punishment for the most annoying of children, yet the deity you worship has no qualms about carrying out such a vicious murder.  And you wonder why so many of us reject your psychopathic deity?

II Kings 9:8 and 10:1-11  Engineered by Jehu, chosen by god to succeed Ahab to the throne, 70 children of King Ahab and all the rest of Ahab's "house" are murdered after god decrees they should all be destroyed.  The children's heads are put into baskets at the gate of the city.

II Kings 10:12-30  Through Elisha, god demands the murder of the 42 children of King Judah.  This is eagerly carried out by their own uncles at Jehu's command.

II Kings 19:35  An "angel of the LORD" slays 185,000 Assyrians in one night. 

Job  Job's wives, children, and servants are murdered by god in a contest with Lucifer over Job's loyalty to god.  Somehow, this is all made better when god subsequently gives Job complete healing of the pestilences he allowed to be inflicted upon Job and even more wealth, wives, and children than Job previously had to reward him for not renouncing god despite the unbearable pressure to do so.  And christians have the audacity (or mind-numbing stupidity) to proclaim that this is the act of a just and loving deity and that this same deity values each and every human life from the moment of fertilization?  Uh, no...Not even a little teeny weeny bit.

Singular Murders Committed, Ordered or Condoned by God

There are far too many of these to even begin to list and, frankly, I feel slimy enough as it is by having delved yet again into the morass of depravity that is the "Holy Bible," so I'm keeping this short: 

Most of us know the story of god's commanding Abraham to sacrifice his son Isaac as a burnt offering to test Abraham's loyalty and how god stays his hand at the final moment (if you don't know the story or need a refresher, check out Genesis 22).  Today, we call this child abuse, but such matters are cause for jubilation to the christofascists who seek to bend us all to their twisted beliefs. 

The story we haven't heard from those dear bastions of enlightenment and morality, our priests and pastors, is that of Jephthah, who wasn't nearly so lucky as Abraham.  Jephthah was rewarded by god for defeating the Ammonites at god's behest by having to sacrifice his beloved only child in Judges 11.  That the child was female and that Jephthah was the spawn of a prostitute may explain god's callous disregard for his loyal servant...Who can say?  Of course, we're supposed to continue to take on faith that the christian deity is a just and loving one, despite all evidence to the contrary.

In II Samuel 11 and 12 we are treated to the sordid love triangle of King David, his most trusted and upstanding general Uriah, and Uriah's wife Bathsheba.  In a nutshell, David sees Bathsheba, gets the hots for her, brings her to his palace to get it on with her, and subsequently knocks her up.  He contrives to get Uriah to come home and sleep with her so that Uriah will think the child is his, but Uriah won't do it because it wouldn't be fair to the men under his command who are unable to visit their families (like I said, Uriah is a pretty upstanding guy).  So David goes to Plan B, which is to contrive to get Uriah killed in battle.  God is understandably vexed with David for this breach of scriptural etiquette (adultery and then murder to cover his ass), but how does god then decide to punish David?  By executing David and Bathsheba, as he commands in his draconian laws and as would, thus, be just?  Nope.  God kills their baby to punish them.

Like I said above, delving into the disgusting quagmire that is scripture leaves me feeling coated with scum...Can you believe these people try to claim they're the "moral majority?"...Yeah, neither can I.

God Hates Pregnant Women, Pregnancy, and Fetuses

Again, a by no means exhaustive list, but here are just a few of the many instances in which god or one of his prophets or other favored psychopaths orders or brags about the slaughter of pregnant women (and, by undeniable default, the fetuses they carry):  2 Kings 8:12, 2 Kings 15:16, Hosea 13:16, Amos 1

Also illustrated in many passages is vicious disdain for all physiologic functions peculiar to women:

Leviticus 15: Menstruating women, anything they touch, and anyone who touches them are unclean.  It should go without saying that a man, as well as the bed, are unclean after sexual intercourse with a menstruating woman. 

Leviticus 12:  You might think that god would exalt the process of labor itself, but you would be dead wrong.  If a woman gives birth to a son, she is unclean for 7 days and must purify herself for another 33; she may not touch anything holy or enter any holy sanctuary during her purification, of course.  And if she commits the apparently grave sin of giving birth to a daughter, she is unclean for 14 days, must purify for another 66, and must make a sin offering to atone for daring to give birth to a female.  Funny, you'd think god, in his omniscience, would have been able to explain that it is men whose sperm decides the gender of their offspring, but, of course, such an act might *gasp* take some focus off of women as the root of all that is evil and wrong with the world.

Interesting how god villifies an entire gender and its peculiar physiologic functions, functions which he supposedly created in his infinite wisdom and goodness, functions without which no men, including all his favorite psychopaths and eventually even his supposedly earthly son, would ever be brought into the world.  But, if you've been following along (and you aren't a fundamentalist christian with his/her attendant powers of abnegation of reality and truth) then you have come to realize that the christian god is, indeed, a sadistic, misogynistic, irrational psychopath, in case you didn't already know this.

In Genesis 38 we are treated to the story of Tamar. I am not going to get into the feminist implications of the story, as the important thing to note is that in verse 24 Judah, her father-in-law, condemns her to be burned for harlotry, even though she is pregnant. If god and his chosen people had considered the fetus to be an individual human person, don't you think they would have waited until after she had given birth before executing her? As it is, the only thing that saves her and her fetuses from certain annihilation is her possession of incontrovertible proof that the man who impregnated her was her father-in-law.

Stay Tuned

I will be delving even deeper into the moral mysteries of the holy scriptures and other unfounded fundamentalist christian beliefs with the following treatises on Idiotic Christian Beliefs (not necessarily in this order):

  • God, The First Feminist Edition
  • God Is Loving And Just Edition
  • Biblical Family Values Edition
  • Homosexuals Must Be Killed Edition
  • The Catholic Church As The Bastion Of Morality Edition
  • Slavery Is Wrong Edition
  • The Sanctity Of Marriage Edition
  • The U.S. Founding Fathers Were All Christians Edition

There may be more and I cannot guarantee when these essays will be posted, but, right now, I am going to take a shower and scrub my skin until it's red.  I feel seriously defiled right now.  Ugh!

Current Mood: dirtydirty

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Date:June 21st, 2006 09:20 pm (UTC)

God is anti-abortion.

Antiabortion and prolife are synonymous. Prove that God supports abortion, and then you can refute the He is prolife.

Good luck finding scriptures that state, "Beloved Brethren, go, fornicate, be fruitful and multiply, and then behold have thee child dismembered in thine womb."
Date:June 22nd, 2006 06:28 am (UTC)

Re: God is anti-abortion.

And good luck to you proving that god is anti-abortion.

Goodbye, troll!
Date:June 22nd, 2006 06:52 am (UTC)

God IS most certainly Pro-LIFE

Ruth, How sad that you describe our loving God as a "sadistic, misogynist, irrational psychopath" and yourself a "former" Christian. I do not pretend to be a Bible expert or theologian, but I'll do the best I can to address your woefully erroneous Scripture misinterpretations, one by one, proving that God loves you and He is most certainly pro-life. I'm slow at this and want to do the best I can, so it may take several entries over time, but let's give it a go. My message will also be one I think you will like- God is ultimately also pro-"choice", in that He gives each one of us a very clear "choice" to make over and over each day; we can CHOOSE to do good or CHOOSE to do evil, but be ready to enjoy or suffer either the rewards or consequences.

To begin with, Genesis 1:27 tells us we are each made in the image of God, who created us. He blessed us and God saw that all He had made was very good. Yet, within the very next chapter Genesis 2, man and woman are tempted in the Garden of Eden and given a "choice" between obeying God or succumbing to temptation, choosing between good and evil. Though they had everything they could possibly want, they directly disobeyed God by knowingly and intentionally eating from the ONE tree out of the whole garden, that God had specifically forbidden, "for when you eat of it you will surely die." God, their Creator, lovingly provided everything, issued an unambiguous command restricting just ONE tree in the whole garden, and warned of dire consequences, yet Adam and Eve defiantly disobeyed Him, listened to the "crafty serpent" and suffered God's wrath as a result. Silly people! Yet, we do the same thing every day. God loves us, provides for us, gives us clear rules to live by, with certain very well-defined good/bad consequences, yet we CHOOSE whether or not to obey. God is merciful. God is kind and slow to anger, but when He issues His judgment, be forewarned. You are right, being an "unbeliever" is no excuse for misunderstanding His message and disobedience cannot be dismissed with "I didn't know...", yet in His abundant mercy, He sent His only Son to die for us so that our sins may be forgiven. How much more loving can you be than that? Christ giving up His life for me and for you and for all sinners is in stark contrast to the extremely selfish "my body, my choice" abortion-rights mentality.

Throughout my response, I will never claim that the Old Testament is defunct, for it foretells events of the New Testament, including Jesus Christ as our Savior who "was crucified for our sins" exactly as you say. You begin with the flood of Genesis 7, but let's look at the previous chapter 6 to better understand God's seemingly extreme actions. In 6:5-7 "The Lord saw how great man's wickedness on the earth had become, and that every inclination of the thoughts of the heart was ONLY EVIL ALL THE TIME. The Lord was grieved, that He had made man on the earth, and His heart was filled with pain. So the Lord said, "I will wipe mankind, whom I have created, from the face of the earth". In contrast, Noah was "a righteous man, blameless among the people of his time, and he walked with God". "Noah did everything just as God commanded him", an important point which is repeated several times. Obviously, the sinfulness of the world grieved God our Creator very deeply and they suffered His judgment, yet God in His mercy, promises Noah and his descendants that "never again will I destroy all living creatures, as I have done" in Gen 8:21. Again, the message is clear, each of us can CHOOSE between good and evil. There will be consequences for wicked behavior and rewards for walking in obedience. God keeps His promises.

My comments are exceeding the maximum allowance, so I'll break it into two parts.

Date:June 22nd, 2006 07:00 am (UTC)

Re: God IS most certainly Pro-LIFE

Comment from "Abortion Hurts for a Lifetime" continued:

After Noah and the flood, you then move on to Genesis 19, Sodom and Gomorrah. However, lets back up and look at chapter 18, to better understand God's seemingly "sadistic" actions as you erroneously describe. In Genesis 18:20-33, the "Lord said, 'The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great and their sin so grievous that I will go down and see if what they have done is as bad as the outcry that has reach me". Abraham, who had been chosen by the Lord for "doing what is right and just" asks God, "Will you sweep away the righteous with the wicked?" We see Abraham plead with God for the righteous lives who resided in Sodom and Gomorrah. He asks, "What if there are fifty righteous people in the city? Will you sweep it away or save the lives of those fifty?" In Genesis 18:26 "The Lord said, 'If I find fifty righeous people in the city of Sodom, I wlll spare THE WHOLE PLACE for their sake." Finally, God says, "For the sake of ten, I will not destroy it [the city].", but unfortunately, there weren't even ten righteous people in the whole city. In His mercy, we read in 19:5, God sends two angels to warn Lot, Abraham's nephew, and his family to escape, but the people of the city were so wicked that they called to Lot "Where are the men [the two angels] who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them." Lot says to them, "No, my FRIENDS. DON'T DO this wicked thing." Oddly, Lot then offers his two daughters, but the wicked citizens get even more angry and emboldened, pressuring Lot, threatening to break down the door of his house. The angels tell Lot in Gen 19:14, "Hurry and get out of this place, because the Lord is about to destroy the city! Take your wife and daughters, or you will be swept away when the city is punished." For the Lord was merciful to them. They were also warned, "Don't look back and don't stop! Flee or you will be swept away!" Instead of obeying this urgent and serious warning, Lot and his family were slow to respond, having grown accustomed to the comforts of a "successful" life in the wicked city, and in Gen:26, "Lot's wife looked back, and she became a pillar of salt".

Therefore, again we see a merciful God, who grieves over our wicked ways, gives us clear direction, allows us to CHOOSE between good and evil, and warns us there will be consequences. He urges us to flee from evil and not look back, but how does the non-repentant, pro-abortion community respond? How do I respond?

That's all I can write tonight, Ruth. Still have dishes to do and the 5:30 alarm comes too quickly.

I'll write more soon. May the loving God who created you and me, keep us close, invite us back, for He has never left us, no matter how far we have strayed from Him. Let us use the gift of "choice" to make the right decisions in our lives, choosing good, not evil, humbly relying on His grace, mercy, and forgiveness.

Posted by Abortion Hurts for a Lifetime, from the INS community

Date:June 23rd, 2006 06:00 am (UTC)

God IS most certainly Pro-life: Part 3

Ruth, While we are in the Old Testament, how about inviting your pro-abortion Jewish friend to join us for an interesting exchange, particularly as we explore Exodus, in which God orchestrates the greatest rescue effort in history, saving the Israelites from 400 years of enslavement, instituting the Passover, and bringing them into the Promised Land. You are correct, Exodus 4:21 reads, "I will harden Pharaoh's heart", but you erroneously imply that Egypt's leader was a good ol' guy whose sweet disposition was abruptly changed for the worse by God. Let's look at Egypt's kings during that time and see how they consistently mis-treated the Israelites, God's chosen people, to determine if this is true.

Pharaoh thought the Israelites had gotten too numerous Exodus 1:9, so he enslaved them, "oppresses them with forced labor" and "worked them ruthlessly". Then this otherwise "really nice guy" Pharaoh (according to your presumption of innocence), orders the midwives to kill all the Hebrew babies if it is a boy, but if it is a girl, let her live (Exodus 1:16). The midwives bravely refused to obey his ruthless orders, so again this "really nice guy" Pharaoh gave this order, "Every boy that is born you must throw in the Nile, but let every girl live", hence the whole story of Moses' mother saving her son's life by hiding him in a basket, to be adopted later into by the unknowing Pharaoh's daughter. Obviously, Pharaoh was allowed to practice free will, as you were questioning, through his terribly mean treatment of the Israelites. Before any of the ten plagues began, God warned Pharaoh of what He would do if Pharaoh didn't let His people go, but the ultimatum only made Pharaoh more stubborn, already hardening his heart.

In Exodus 5, Moses says to Pharaoh, "Let my people go" and Pharaoh arrogantly and defiantly (sound familiar??) responds "Who is the Lord, that I should obey him and let Israel go? I do not know the Lord and I will not let Israel go." The Israelites had been enslaved for 400 years, making bricks to build Pharaoh's cities. Pharaoh became so vengeful that "he ordered his slave drivers and foremen in charge of the people not to supply the straw for the people any longer, but make them gather their own, yet require them to make the same number of bricks as before; don't reduce the quota, for they are lazy, that is why they are crying out." Ex 5:14 The Israelites were beaten when they didn't meet their quota of bricks. God "heard the groaning of the Israelites, who were enslaved, and remembered the covenant He had made with them." All of this cruel treatment of the Israelites by Pharaoh occurred before God had hardened Pharaoh's heart, so truly he had already been given plenty of opportunity to express his "free will" as you inquire and choose to do the right thing by releasing the Israelite people out of bondage. Pharaoh freely and consistently chose a disobedient life, which led God to harden his heart. The message is clear, obey and harden not your heart, for there are serious consequences, and over time the condition may become permanent. God took no delight in any of the plagues, but again disobedience will be punished.

Next, you mention Exodus 14 when God brings an estimated two million Israelites out of 430 years of Egyptian slavery. Not willing to let the Israelites, his free labor force, go, Pharaoh chased after the Israelites with 600 of his chariots. The Israelites, God's chosen people (aka the Jews) were terrified and cried out to the Lord. As they were chased through the Red Sea by the Egyptian soldiers, God saved the Jewish people by drowning their enemies. Therefore, you are correct that God eventually hardened Pharaoh's heart, 10 plagues did take place, and the Egyptian soldiers who pursued the escaping Israelites (aka Hebrews, Jews) were drowned in the Red Sea. God keeps His promises, hears the cries of His people, rescues them from bondage, and punishes their enemies. After all, the leaders and citizens of Egypt were disobedient and cruel to the Israelites for over 400 years, so what exactly do you expect from God? He gives us specific commands, warns us of consequences, and keeps His Word.

Signed Abortion Hurts for a Lifetime

Date:June 23rd, 2006 06:06 am (UTC)

Re: God IS most certainly Pro-life: Part 3

Ruth, are you or any one else reading these comments? Is anyone going to agree or disagree in response? I'm losing motivation just writing to myself. I think I'll take a break until there is some indication this effort is worth continuing. At a pace of one a night, this could be a project for the whole summer, which is fine, if anyone was interested, but if not, I've got lots of other things that I really should be doing tonight...
Date:June 24th, 2006 05:41 am (UTC)

God is Love

Dear Ruth,

I agree with you: there appears to be a lot of evidence in the Bible that makes God look anything but pro-life. Why do I believe He is Love then? I am not sure, I just know that I do, and I also know it is true. Perhaps my faith is the greatest gift I have. I look around and see the world God created: the peaceful beauty of a tree - a sunset - bright white clouds against an azure sky - the sun dancing on the water - the tiny hand of a baby wrapped around my finger - and I know only a loving God could create you and me and all of this. Does He want any of us to hurt? No. He wants us to know Him, to Love Him, to serve Him - to live with Him in happiness forever in Heaven. Do I get angry with Him when things don't go my way? Yes. Do I ever think He doesn't care about me and what happens to me? Yes. One time I was standing on my back porch, in a lot of emotional pain, and angry at God because I was blaming Him for my pain and His apparent lack of doing anything to help me. I screamed at Him through my tears - "You don't even care about what I'm going through!" I heard Him say "Oh, My Child" and I felt flooded with so much love I could not began to receive it. Ruth, He loves you in the very same way. I cannot resolve for you the conflicts you find in the Scriptures, or even the conflicts you see in us sinful Christians. I will leave the Scripture exegesis for more accomplished scholars than I. All I can share with you is that as a limited human being I have come to realize I can not completely understand my Creator or how or even why exactly He created me, but I know He loves me - I know He loves you - I know He loves each one of us - no matter how small, no matter how old, no matter how beautiful or ugly - how bright or how dull - and that the only reason any of us exist is through His love. God bless you.
Date:June 27th, 2006 10:40 am (UTC)

Re: God is Love

So Christians who accept God never hurt? Well, then sign me up!
Date:June 26th, 2006 10:07 pm (UTC)
It’s truly refreshing to find another former-Christian-turned-atheist (Southern Baptist in my case) in this Christ-haunted culture of ours, especially one as grounded in the knowledge of so-called scripture as yourself. Pending your permission—hopefully forthcoming—I’ve taken the liberty of adding to my flist. I will, of course, honor your wishes should you ask me to remove you, but hope you can find it in your interests to add me as well.

Keep on fighting the good fight!
Date:June 27th, 2006 12:18 am (UTC)
Thank you. And I've friend you in return. :)
Date:June 27th, 2006 12:24 am (UTC)
Do you mind if people post links to this? I have some fundie-type friends that I feel like irritating.

Very good job with the research. I'm a deconverted Christian as well, currently agnostic, and I can appreciate how both tedious and stomach-churning reading and analyzing all of that must have been. Good job!

I am looking forward to future installments, especially the one on Catholicism!
Date:June 27th, 2006 03:33 am (UTC)
Use it however you'd like. You don't even have to credit me. The more of us who fight against delusion and christian idiocy the better!

I love Bab 5! I'm a total sci-fi nut. :)
(no subject) - (Anonymous) Expand
Date:June 27th, 2006 12:51 am (UTC)
I don't know you (I'm a friend of zas), but this is a brilliant post.
Date:June 27th, 2006 03:45 am (UTC)
Thanks. :D

Another great icon!
Date:June 27th, 2006 12:56 am (UTC)
You're seriously awesome. Mind if I add you?
Date:June 27th, 2006 12:57 am (UTC)
(wandered over here from cf_hardcore, by the way)
Date:June 27th, 2006 01:21 am (UTC)
Found my way here via your post in atheism - great article. :) I've friended you so I can keep up on the articles in your upcoming list, you don't have to friend me back if I don't seem like somebody you'd be interested in. ;)
Date:July 13th, 2006 06:50 pm (UTC)
I've checked out your user info and am friending you back. :)
Date:June 27th, 2006 01:37 am (UTC)
Wow, I'm impressed. You really did your homework.
Too often, religious (Christian) leaders only find what they want to find in the Bible, and use it to brainwash impressionable minds.
Date:June 27th, 2006 02:49 am (UTC)
I'm friending you, and this was very good. It raised a lot of good points. Unfortunetly, I was never a christian and so have never read the bible, but I do take your word.
Date:June 27th, 2006 03:43 am (UTC)

Question Everything!

I never recommend that anyone take another's word for it, which is why I provided scriptural references and a link to a searchable online bible.

Also, I'm a woman, a feminist, and militantly pro-choice and I can't help but interpret the world through those lenses. Which is why I welcome criticism.

Lucky you for not having had to pull yourself from the morass of christian delusion! My fiancé was raised by his atheist father, so he doesn't harbor any of the bitterness that I do over feeling such guilt over my sexual nature, as well as having bought into the xtian homophobia. Seriously, I hate christianity. I envy the both of you (but in a happy way)! :D
Date:June 27th, 2006 03:14 am (UTC)
What a fantastic post. Your replies to the xian bloke are great as well. You've really done your homework. I never understood how anyone could read the bible and find a loving, prolife deity.
Date:June 27th, 2006 04:35 am (UTC)

God is _____?

I came across this, and it seemed to me that most of the comments were not addressing the core problem of this post, which is that the author conveniently ignores the fact that God is anti-abortion. We know this by using God's commandment, "Thou shalt not murder" along with the scientific fact that an alive (growing, etc.), human (46 chromosomes) individual (DNA is genetically "new"- the combination has never yet existed) is created at conception. If this is difficult to comprehend, then there is also the example that DementedChicken presented. When Exodus 21:22-25 is correctly translated, it reads,

“And if men struggle with each other and strike a woman with child so that the child comes forth, yet there is no injury, he shall surely be fined as the woman’s husband may demand of him; and he shall pay as the judges decide. But if there is any injury, then you shall appoint as a penalty life for life....”

Notice that this passage treats the unborn in the same manner of the woman. To read more on this subject, and to see why DementedChicken's version is an incorrect translation of Hebrew, see here (http://www.str.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=5700).

Now, onto the focus of this post, which instead of "Is God Pro-life?" seems to be "Is God a 'sadistic, misogynistic, irrational psychopath'?"


Is it in the character of a "sadistic, misogynistic, irrational psychopath" to allow Himself to undergo everything and give His life in order to save the lives of others? To quote U2, "What more in the name of love?" Is it the character of a "sadistic, misogynistic, irrational psychopath" to have women be the first to witness His resurrection?

Again, no.

One more thing- One cannot expect humanity to completely understand God. Now, this may sound like a convenient "cop-out", but it's obviously true. I mean, think, if there is an all-powerful being, how well do you think we would comprehend it? Since when does the creation completely comprehend the Creator? Heck, we humans can't even understand the working of our own brain, much less the One who made us.

Moreover, it is entirely human nature to say that just because we cannot understand the unknown, it doesn't exist. This is basically the atheistic viewpoint. It is surprising that we humans have not managed to progress past this point, considering that this thinking has greatly hindered us in the past. For example, we thought that because we had not discovered the Americas yet, the world must go no further.

Anyways, I can probably expect ridicule from this, but I hope that at least one open-minded atheist is reading, and I hope that they can at least try to see it from my perspective.

(Btw, I did all my own homework, unlike others on this livejournal. Any readers impressed by bjsurvivor can view this (http://www.evilbible.com/evils%20of%20the%20torah.htm) webpage to view some of her "inspiration." Notice the remarkably similar, "God entraps humans...")

~~A 16-year-old former fetus who firmly believes God is pro-life
Date:June 27th, 2006 07:14 am (UTC)

Re: God is A Sadistic, Misogynistic Psychopath

The ability to save premature babies is a modern advancement, so the harm alluded to in this passage is clearly only applicable to the woman. Nice try, though. Again and again, we are treated to god's ordering/committing the slaughter of pregnant women, which, since it is obvious you need it pointed out to you, also kills their fetuses. Tamar was to be burned to death, even though she was pregnant, and was only able to save herself and her fetuses from slaughter by presenting incontrovertible proof that her father-in-law had impregnated her. If god and his chosen people had considered fetuses to be separate individuals, wouldn't it make sense that they would have waited until after she gave birth before executing her?

If god is a sadistic, misogynistic psychopath, the proof for which I have provided profuse but by no means exhaustive scriptural evidence, then, logically, he cannot be pro-life (except, perhaps, in the minds of his morally bankrupt, egotistical, insane fan club).

Actually, one can expect humanity to fully understand god. Take a look at Psalms 119:130, which tells us that the "Word of God" is understandable even to idiots. Again, nice try, but you really should read the entire post if you hope to actually be taken seriously in this debate.

Atheists do not believe that what is unknown simply doesn't exist. Atheists believe that though there is much we still do not know and may never understand in our current lifetimes, these mysteries may eventually be solved with our scientific methods. Or they may never be solved. We are comfortable with unknowns, unlike fundamentalist christians, who are so afraid of the unknown that they choose to believe in a vengeful, bloodthirsty deity rather than rely on the ability to reason with which we humans have been endowed.

I have personally met and interacted with many teenagers on the Internet who blow me away in terms of moral courage, passion in their writing, reading comprehension, and reasoning skills. You are not one of these teenagers. But I do commend you for your courage in putting yourself out there.

~~A 36-year-old former fetus who has provided incontrovertible scriptural evidence and logical deduction that the christian deity IS NOT pro-life.
Date:June 27th, 2006 05:43 am (UTC)
You are awesome!

Man, the Bible is just filled with depravity. Most of it committed by God, or by people working at his behest. Sad and scary that all this is glossed over or excused, in the face of all evidence.
Date:June 27th, 2006 06:51 am (UTC)
Thank you, that was a very interesting read. It's been years since I gave up religion for good, and this was a good reminder on why I could never go back. If you don't mind, I'll add you to my friends list.